Sons of Steve Garvey: Sunday Night Blues
Random rantings and ravings about the Los Angeles Dodgers, written by a small consortium of rabid Dodger fans.
With occasional comments on baseball, entertainment, pop culture, and life in general.
LA Times' Dylan Hernandez enticed my inner-masochist tonight with the headline, . Hernandez breaks down the load of poop that Ned is leaving under the tree this year for us.
This pretty much sums it up:
It definitely appears that the roster and lineup are nearly set. Of course, Colletti points to the fact that our foundation is Clayton Kershaw and Matt Kemp, and he's right - that's not nothin'. But I still can't help but feel like I asked for a shiny new mountain bike for Christmas but all I got was this:
Thus, I'm fragile. So enough with those Prince Fielder rumors. They can't be true, so stop teasing us.
UPDATE: This will also serve as your Monday Blues Thread
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MMA MELEE - Rogan says bruce lees manager killed him and threw another chick off a roof because bruce was leaving his management That was Jimi Hendrix.
s13&-&FingerorMoon - chaplinshouse - I read the story many times (Chinese MA community didn't like that Bruce was teaching westerners martial arts and sent their best to challenge him with the agreement that if Bruce lost he had to quit teaching Americans)&and it was always that Bruce barely won, and it made Bruce realize his cardio and technique needed serious work which inspired Jeet Kune Do and made him step it up. &This story really seems weird, that China sent their BEST guy to challenge Bruce and he was so incompetent that he was punching behind his own head and back while running away?? And there were many witnesses that day that were loyal to Bruce. &Why wouldn't Bruce's domination be the story everyone told from day one? And if Bruce dominated him, why then would Bruce conclude that Wing Chun is &not too practical& and then decide he'd better make his own MA?&Don't get me wrong I'm one of the few here that think Bruce would have kicked ass in MMA today if he were young. &His dedication was&greater than guys of today by a mile, he had the reach of a 6+ footer and for a bantamweight that is huge, and his quickness was phenomenal (not to mention its on record he beat Bolo on set of Enter the Dragon, a huge roided black belt, with ease). &But.... Linda's version seems strangeChina did not 'send their best guy'Wong Jack Man just happened to be the one in the local vicinity that took the challenge.The ongoing confusion about the reason being teaching foreigners is the Lee estate always wanting to make him out to be the monk from Enter the Dragon.In reality he was extremely cocky and talked a lot of smack (ie 'Chinese martial arts are a classical mess.' He had a grave stone in his dojo to mock traditional martial artists adherence to dogma lol). His shit talking is likely a big reason for the attempted dojo storm.Time of the fight is basically irrelevant. Whether it was 3 minutes or 25 minutes the account by everyone is that it was very sloppy and neither man came off looking great. The ONLY person who claims a different result is WJM and his account is just obviously full of shit (ie my kicks were too dangerous to use, I had other strikes but didn't want to kill him haha)It is definitely NOT on the record that Bolo and Bruce fought and there has never been anyone that has stated it happened.Almost everyone but Lee is still alive from that shoot and the interviews have been extensive.It is true he agreed to fights during breaks with random background extras according to multiple sources and always creamed them. I guess its ok though for the Gracies to talk shit and claim to have the best style (and create a tournament to prove such) when they see deficiencies in other arts and how they apply to the real world vs their art...shame on them! I don't know what you're talking about or who you're responding to here.
s13&-&Lanceness021 -She's full of shit, she made a ton of money off the Bruce Lee legend/myth I doubt the man himself would have stood for it.&You're talking about the woman he loved more than anything in this world and the mother of his children he loved very much. I HIGHLY doubt he would have any problems with her giving her account on what happened and I'm sure she wasn't with him for the 'money' considering racial tensions back then and he didn't have anything when they met. You are a disgusting person man...how about you go find a wife of your own before you go bashing Bruce's. Would love to see you say that to his face were he alive and how fast YOU would run when he stockton slapped the shit out of you. And about making money off Bruce, that's his WIFE, she was there and the one that inspired him to finisn his book for HIS martial art when he destroyed his back in a fight...or did you not know that? She is single handedly responsible for birthing Jeet Kun Do as Lee wanted to give up and pushed her away, but she stuck with him through his horrible injury, through thick and thin and you say she has no claim to his wealth? Makes me want to smack the shit out of you myself...get your fucking facts straight before you open your mouth dummy and hope his family doesn't follow the UG. You are a disrespectful piece of shit...seriously. The second she became his WIFE she was ENTITLED to anything he has just like any other loving couple and same for my wife, what's mine is hers when I pass on and if she can make millions or whatever from it then so be it, it just means my family is taken care of and I can truly rest in peace....dummy. The UG has become such a breeding ground for bottom feeders like yourself who want to do nothing but bash people for no reason, probably because you never got your ass kicked (yet) since you refuse to leave mommy's basement and be a keyboard warrior...but hey...I'm not surprised motherfucker.Bruce Lee was all about creating the legend of Bruce Lee and making bank so he'd have no problem with Linda Lee doing the same and making cash for his children (and grand children).He used to carry around a personal inspiration/goal card in his wallet saying he would make $10M dollars.Saying that ...its weird your knowledge of Bruce Lee seems to come from the fictional Hollywood bio.He did not injure his back in a fight and Linda did not encourage him to release the Jeet Kune Do book while recovering. That was made up for the movie.He injured his back doing weight lifting - specifically the 'good morning' exercise. This is the official story from Linda Lee herself, not a rumor.The book is actually a collection of his personal notes that was never intended for release that Linda and a few others cobbled together and released a few years after his death - again this is the official story form Linda herself.
chaplinshouse&-&chaplinshouse -FingerorMoon -chaplinshouse -I read the story many times (Chinese MA community didn't like that Bruce was teaching westerners martial arts and sent their best to challenge him with the agreement that if Bruce lost he had to quit teaching Americans)&and it was always that Bruce barely won, and it made Bruce realize his cardio and technique needed serious work which inspired Jeet Kune Do and made him step it up. &This story really seems weird, that China sent their BEST guy to challenge Bruce and he was so incompetent that he was punching behind his own head and back while running away?? And there were many witnesses that day that were loyal to Bruce. &Why wouldn't Bruce's domination be the story everyone told from day one? And if Bruce dominated him, why then would Bruce conclude that Wing Chun is &not too practical& and then decide he'd better make his own MA?&Don't get me wrong I'm one of the few here that think Bruce would have kicked ass in MMA today if he were young. &His dedication was&greater than guys of today by a mile, he had the reach of a 6+ footer and for a bantamweight that is huge, and his quickness was phenomenal (not to mention its on record he beat Bolo on set of Enter the Dragon, a huge roided black belt, with ease). &But.... Linda's version seems strangeChina did not 'send their best guy'Wong Jack Man just happened to be the one in the local vicinity that took the challenge.The ongoing confusion about the reason being teaching foreigners is the Lee estate always wanting to make him out to be the monk from Enter the Dragon.In reality he was extremely cocky and talked a lot of smack (ie 'Chinese martial arts are a classical mess.' He had a grave stone in his dojo to mock traditional martial artists adherence to dogma lol). His shit talking is likely a big reason for the attempted dojo storm.Time of the fight is basically irrelevant. Whether it was 3 minutes or 25 minutes the account by everyone is that it was very sloppy and neither man came off looking great. The ONLY person who claims a different result is WJM and his account is just obviously full of shit (ie my kicks were too dangerous to use, I had other strikes but didn't want to kill him haha)It is definitely NOT on the record that Bolo and Bruce fought and there has never been anyone that has stated it happened.Almost everyone but Lee is still alive from that shoot and the interviews have been extensive.It is true he agreed to fights during breaks with random background extras according to multiple sources and always creamed them. I'm just citing the story I've read many times, obviously I wasn't there so I can't say for sure. &I believe my main point was that Linda's story sounds fishy. &Yup very familiar with him not liking traditional Chinese arts and his exact phrase of &classical mess&. &I'm not surprised, when I took kung fu as a 12 year old I wondered &how the fuck would this actually work in a real fight? this is all choreography& and i was a dumb kid so i can imagine how Bruce felt. &I do remember for a fact Wall saying it was Bolo that fought Lee but again, I wasn't thereNICE! I found the part of the documtary where &the fight& is talked about. &Queued up at the right part. Linda is likely full of crap. &There are many documentaries but this one was pretty credible as it featured interviewees such as Chuck Norris, James Coburn, Bruce's directors/producers/students, Bruce's brother, etc etc & is narrated by George Takai (oh my!)&Apparently they've decided copyright to watch this via youtube doesn't extend to Australia ...lol wtf? I've seen it though ...although with every other doco ever made multiple times :) I'm always suspicious of any of the official docos as there is so much myth making in them when it comes to Lee. Its only really when you see independent interviews that a more rounded picture becomes apparent.Although in recent years Linda Lee seems to be loosening up a bit. The latest one 'I am Bruce Lee' is the first time I've ever seen her say on camera that Bruce did not miraculously fully recover from his bad back injury and he continued to have ongoing back problems that were an issue (something that had been talked about by others but had always been basically refuted by the Lee estate)
FingerorMoon&-&s13&-&Lanceness021 -She's full of shit, she made a ton of money off the Bruce Lee legend/myth I doubt the man himself would have stood for it.&You're talking about the woman he loved more than anything in this world and the mother of his children he loved very much. I HIGHLY doubt he would have any problems with her giving her account on what happened and I'm sure she wasn't with him for the 'money' considering racial tensions back then and he didn't have anything when they met. You are a disgusting person man...how about you go find a wife of your own before you go bashing Bruce's. Would love to see you say that to his face were he alive and how fast YOU would run when he stockton slapped the shit out of you. And about making money off Bruce, that's his WIFE, she was there and the one that inspired him to finisn his book for HIS martial art when he destroyed his back in a fight...or did you not know that? She is single handedly responsible for birthing Jeet Kun Do as Lee wanted to give up and pushed her away, but she stuck with him through his horrible injury, through thick and thin and you say she has no claim to his wealth? Makes me want to smack the shit out of you myself...get your fucking facts straight before you open your mouth dummy and hope his family doesn't follow the UG. You are a disrespectful piece of shit...seriously. The second she became his WIFE she was ENTITLED to anything he has just like any other loving couple and same for my wife, what's mine is hers when I pass on and if she can make millions or whatever from it then so be it, it just means my family is taken care of and I can truly rest in peace....dummy. The UG has become such a breeding ground for bottom feeders like yourself who want to do nothing but bash people for no reason, probably because you never got your ass kicked (yet) since you refuse to leave mommy's basement and be a keyboard warrior...but hey...I'm not surprised motherfucker.Bruce Lee was all about creating the legend of Bruce Lee and making bank so he'd have no problem with Linda Lee doing the same and making cash for his children (and grand children).He used to carry around a personal inspiration/goal card in his wallet saying he would make $10M dollars.Saying that ...its weird your knowledge of Bruce Lee seems to come from the fictional Hollywood bio.He did not injure his back in a fight and Linda did not encourage him to release the Jeet Kune Do book while recovering. That was made up for the movie.He injured his back doing weight lifting - specifically the 'good morning' exercise. This is the official story from Linda Lee herself, not a rumor.The book is actually a collection of his personal notes that was never intended for release that Linda and a few others cobbled together and released a few years after his death - again this is the official story form Linda herself.Linda Caldwell's ex-husband said she told him he actually threw out his back having sex.
Guys, you do know he wrote a series of books right? Not a collection of notes cobbled together and published after he died, but literally hundreds of pictures of him performing techs he taught along with a young Dan Inosanto if I'm not remembering wrong. It was called Bruce Lee's Figthing methods and was originally 4 or 5 books I think. You can buy it now in one volume on amazon. They include such gems as kicking a knife out of someone's hands. Spinning kicks to the head in a street fight. Etc. Stuff that if taught today would get people laughed at. Here's a screenshot of some pages: /bruceleefightingmethodvolume1--phpapp01/95/bruce-lee-fighting-method-volume-1-45-728.jpg?cb=Then there's the videos that was released of him doing bag work. Punching and kicking a heavy bag and a kick shield. He was side kicking a stationary target, a giant kick shield. He missed it once and hit way off to the side a few times. His heavy bag boxing work was him winging punches from his waist into the bag with his head forward and open. Looking really sloppy and untrained tbh. His training philosophy was ahead of it's time. But, he never fought anyone of note. But he died young with a lot of A list hollywood friends, making him legendary. He's kind of like a Rorschach test of martial arts tbh. People see what they want to see.
Just wanted to add: You don't have to be a great fighter to be a great coach. Cus D'amato, Angelo Dundee were all time great coaches, but weren't fighters. It didn't diminish their skills or their abilities to coach in any way.
The J -Good post, and I appreciate the detailed response.I never studied wing chun, so I am not in a position to argue the specifics. However, I think it can be said that even if a person has not learned the advanced drills, he can still have an understanding that the direction of the art itself is not one he wishes to pursue. I respect all arts. Every art has something to offer. It is the goals of the individual that should be the deciding factor. In terms of self defense and effective fighting -- all arts are simply NOT created equal. Strict adherence to one art, to preserve tradition, is a way of life that goes beyond mere self defense. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But if becoming an effective fighter against ANY opponent is the goal, then I do not believe that mastery of a traditional Asian martial art is the best path. This is not to say in cannot work, especially in terms of relatively rare instances of self defense. What put me off about your average American TMA strip mall dojo, is the false sense of security they perpetuated. Almost every one of them had a so called "master" who's art was just too deadly to be taken lightly. This is not to say they weren't highly skilled. But a ping pong player can be highly skilled too. Don't get me wrong, TMA's have their place. I grew up with them. I trained in them. I love and respect them (especially Kaijukenbo). TMA's are effective. I just think the student has to be open minded and savvy enough to kind of be his own guide. The art is simply a means to an end. Its whats inside the individual that makes a fighter. I am not one of these MMA&Everything else guys. But I do believe that for the most part, the evolution of MMA has developed into a broad system that can reasonably be considered the most complete and effective form of H2H combat in modern human history. However, that is not an absolute statement -- its a broad statement that should be applied with reasonable exceptions given and implied, due to infinite variables. As far as Muay Thai - I agree with some of what you are saying. It is an art based around the culture of an aggressive and competitive combat sport. A TMA student can spend a lifetime training with the goal to never fight. Muay Thai is intended to be used to fight, and often. The physical conditioning is another great point, and very true. That said, I disagree with your statement that its effectiveness "has very little to do with the art of muay thai". For the record, I would not be one to say that Muay Thai is the best striking art. Realistically, there is no "best". Again, the individual transcends the art itself. But realistically, Muay Thai is very much and should be ranked among the top fighting arts there is.Muay Thai is effective because of its relatively simplicity. There are a variety of solid, relatively basic strikes put together in devastating combination. There is also an emphasis on fighting in the clinch, an something other arts tend to be weak in, or avoid all together. Muay Thai is also effective in the hands of a physically solid individual. It
as opposed to a passive means of self defense.What I like about Muay Thai, other forms of kickboxing, and boxing in general -- is the focus on positioning and movement for defense. It is much more practical to put the arms in a defensive position to block a high percentage of strikes, than it is to attempt to single out specific strikes and attempt to block/parry/counter multiple strikes in rapid succession. Its not impossible. But it takes a very high level of mastery and usually an opponent with a similar style to be consistently effectively. Most TMA's train against the same TMA 90% of the time. The similar rhythm and ranges involved increase the effectiveness of the arts. But a fairly athletic person can learn some basic kickboxing and be in a position to hold his own with people who have trained for years. Advancing this approach with slips and counters takes it to another level. Either way -- sacrificing some defense and relying on superior timing is a young mans game. A wise man once told me, "young reflex beats learned reflex". I have observed to this to be true.SOrry for the FRAT LOL
I met John Saxon years ago and I asked him what kind of badass Bruce Lee was. He said very simply "The biggest tool Bruce had was his speed. He was so fast that we had to slow down footage of his fight scenes to be able to choreograph them properly. He was also wildly athletic. I've never seen an athlete like Bruce in all these years. I saw guys challenge him, but never saw anyone beat him". Saxon was there. Trained with him. Learned from him. Was on set of many of the films. I believe him.
banco&-&FingerorMoon&-&s13&-&Lanceness021 -She's full of shit, she made a ton of money off the Bruce Lee legend/myth I doubt the man himself would have stood for it.&You're talking about the woman he loved more than anything in this world and the mother of his children he loved very much. I HIGHLY doubt he would have any problems with her giving her account on what happened and I'm sure she wasn't with him for the 'money' considering racial tensions back then and he didn't have anything when they met. You are a disgusting person man...how about you go find a wife of your own before you go bashing Bruce's. Would love to see you say that to his face were he alive and how fast YOU would run when he stockton slapped the shit out of you. And about making money off Bruce, that's his WIFE, she was there and the one that inspired him to finisn his book for HIS martial art when he destroyed his back in a fight...or did you not know that? She is single handedly responsible for birthing Jeet Kun Do as Lee wanted to give up and pushed her away, but she stuck with him through his horrible injury, through thick and thin and you say she has no claim to his wealth? Makes me want to smack the shit out of you myself...get your fucking facts straight before you open your mouth dummy and hope his family doesn't follow the UG. You are a disrespectful piece of shit...seriously. The second she became his WIFE she was ENTITLED to anything he has just like any other loving couple and same for my wife, what's mine is hers when I pass on and if she can make millions or whatever from it then so be it, it just means my family is taken care of and I can truly rest in peace....dummy. The UG has become such a breeding ground for bottom feeders like yourself who want to do nothing but bash people for no reason, probably because you never got your ass kicked (yet) since you refuse to leave mommy's basement and be a keyboard warrior...but hey...I'm not surprised motherfucker.Bruce Lee was all about creating the legend of Bruce Lee and making bank so he'd have no problem with Linda Lee doing the same and making cash for his children (and grand children).He used to carry around a personal inspiration/goal card in his wallet saying he would make $10M dollars.Saying that ...its weird your knowledge of Bruce Lee seems to come from the fictional Hollywood bio.He did not injure his back in a fight and Linda did not encourage him to release the Jeet Kune Do book while recovering. That was made up for the movie.He injured his back doing weight lifting - specifically the 'good morning' exercise. This is the official story from Linda Lee herself, not a rumor.The book is actually a collection of his personal notes that was never intended for release that Linda and a few others cobbled together and released a few years after his death - again this is the official story form Linda herself.Linda Caldwell's ex-husband said she told him he actually threw out his back having sex. You've got to be careful with that guy and the claims he makes in his book (Unsettled Matters)He is very much the bitter ex that while claiming to have the upmost respect for Lee, obviously has another agenda in his writing.3 basic things I can think of off the top of my head:(and its been years since I've read it)1) Claims that the footage shot for Game of Death was practice test footage only and never intended for release in any move and that there was no script or concept....except that a couple of years later they found Lee's script notes and movie outline for Game of Death in his personal possessions and used it to make the 'Warriors Journey doco and recut footage'....it was in the same collection of possessions Bleecker claimed he had 100% access to and used to write his book so its odd he missed it all ....2) Claims the yellow jumpsuit was because Bruce was off steroids at that time and he was wasted away and tiny. Bleecker claimed he can tell just by looking at him in the suit that this is the case....except that now in the age of the internet there are photos online of Bruce onset with the yellow jumpsuit rolled down to his waist and its clearly the same Lee physique he was famous for.3) Bleecker outlined a whole steroid angle conspiracy and who Bruce's dealers were and what he was on and when....and then later in an interview for the revised edition of Fighting Spirit (probably the best Bruce Lee bio book) just stated that he had no evidence for any of it but put it in because it 'seemed to fit'. (note: I think Lee was likely on something but I its bizarre to directly refer to someone as his steroid dealer when you have no evidence of the sort)
Skpotamus&-&Guys, you do know he wrote a series of books right? Not a collection of notes cobbled together and published after he died, but literally hundreds of pictures of him performing techs he taught along with a young Dan Inosanto if I'm not remembering wrong. It was called Bruce Lee's Figthing methods and was originally 4 or 5 books I think. You can buy it now in one volume on amazon. They include such gems as kicking a knife out of someone's hands. Spinning kicks to the head in a street fight. Etc. Stuff that if taught today would get people laughed at. Here's a screenshot of some pages: /bruceleefightingmethodvolume1--phpapp01/95/bruce-lee-fighting-method-volume-1-45-728.jpg?cb=Then there's the videos that was released of him doing bag work. Punching and kicking a heavy bag and a kick shield. He was side kicking a stationary target, a giant kick shield. He missed it once and hit way off to the side a few times. His heavy bag boxing work was him winging punches from his waist into the bag with his head forward and open. Looking really sloppy and untrained tbh. His training philosophy was ahead of it's time. But, he never fought anyone of note. But he died young with a lot of A list hollywood friends, making him legendary. He's kind of like a Rorschach test of martial arts tbh. People see what they want to see.Bruce Lee's Fighting Method was a series of 4 pamphlet sized books he had pics taken for in the mid to late 60s.He chose not to release any of it because his training philosophies changed rapidly during that time.They ended up being released as a cash in, about 5 years after his death. There was a remastering a couple of years ago and combining them all into 1 hardcover.The videos of him punching the bag and kicking pads are him having his wife film in his own backyard as he was learning these things. They were from private practice and experimentation and again, from the mid 60s.They only prove that he was trying to adapt from Wing Chun to more of a boxing and kickboxing approach at that time.We don't have any real footage or idea of what he looked like in heavy sparring by 1972/3.
GuttyProfessor&-&I met John Saxon years ago and I asked him what kind of badass Bruce Lee was. He said very simply "The biggest tool Bruce had was his speed. He was so fast that we had to slow down footage of his fight scenes to be able to choreograph them properly. He was also wildly athletic. I've never seen an athlete like Bruce in all these years. I saw guys challenge him, but never saw anyone beat him". Saxon was there. Trained with him. Learned from him. Was on set of many of the films. I believe him.
This makes sense.If we could put Bruce Lee in a time machine and let him train at a modern MMA gym (assuming he would have the desire to compete), his speed would be a big strength. He would be able to control distance/ move in and out very well. Also with a young man's reflexes - capitalize on openings very quickly. If we assume Bruce Lee would apply the same commitment to MMA that he did to other successful aspects of his life: it is not unreasonable to speculate that he could be a champion in his weight class. The physical tools and a solid foundation were obviously there. His strengths would only be amplified.Of course, we have to put a heavy dose of speculation in these conversations. Its similar to the whole "Tyson with sprawl training" subject. 100% speculation... but there is still something there. BTW - I met Gerald Okamura about 20 years ago. He said the famous movie actor who could come closest to his on-screen abilities was Chuck Norris. -- Confirming common knowledge IMO :)
kneedy - ^ By your logic so are Rampage and CotoureI have been in a lot of fights. I remember every second of every fight I have ever been in. There have only been about 5 or 6 1/2 seconds where I was rocked and my vision blacked out or my mind went blank and I remember the second before and the second after perfectly fine. If you don't remember your fights and you didn't get knocked out that is because you were a scared fucking pussy who had an adrenaline dump and you lost your senses. Bruce Lee was an incredible martial artist. He didn't need to claim to be 400-0 and win a couple cage fights against meat heads and kickboxers to be a legit fighter. The guy could do a standing double back flip, knock someone back multiple feet from mere inches away, and throw a flying side kick at a 6 foot opponent that would be coming down on their head from above. One punch from him would put a guy like Dillashaw or Mighty Mouse on queer street. His kicks would have had them eating from a straw for months.No one is unbeatable. But at his best, he was the best small fighter who ever lived, even if he didn't have the desire or opportunity to prove it very often.LMAO... No.
GuttyProfessor - I met John Saxon years ago and I asked him what kind of badass Bruce Lee was. He said very simply "The biggest tool Bruce had was his speed. He was so fast that we had to slow down footage of his fight scenes to be able to choreograph them properly. He was also wildly athletic. I've never seen an athlete like Bruce in all these years. I saw guys challenge him, but never saw anyone beat him". Saxon was there. Trained with him. Learned from him. Was on set of many of the films. I believe him. Do you mean Bob Wall?John Saxon played Roper in Enter the Dragon. He was an actor, not a martial artist or student of Lee's. And he wasn't in any other Lee movie.
FingerorMoon -chaplinshouse&-&chaplinshouse -FingerorMoon -chaplinshouse -I read the story many times (Chinese MA community didn't like that Bruce was teaching westerners martial arts and sent their best to challenge him with the agreement that if Bruce lost he had to quit teaching Americans)&and it was always that Bruce barely won, and it made Bruce realize his cardio and technique needed serious work which inspired Jeet Kune Do and made him step it up. &This story really seems weird, that China sent their BEST guy to challenge Bruce and he was so incompetent that he was punching behind his own head and back while running away?? And there were many witnesses that day that were loyal to Bruce. &Why wouldn't Bruce's domination be the story everyone told from day one? And if Bruce dominated him, why then would Bruce conclude that Wing Chun is &not too practical& and then decide he'd better make his own MA?&Don't get me wrong I'm one of the few here that think Bruce would have kicked ass in MMA today if he were young. &His dedication was&greater than guys of today by a mile, he had the reach of a 6+ footer and for a bantamweight that is huge, and his quickness was phenomenal (not to mention its on record he beat Bolo on set of Enter the Dragon, a huge roided black belt, with ease). &But.... Linda's version seems strangeChina did not 'send their best guy'Wong Jack Man just happened to be the one in the local vicinity that took the challenge.The ongoing confusion about the reason being teaching foreigners is the Lee estate always wanting to make him out to be the monk from Enter the Dragon.In reality he was extremely cocky and talked a lot of smack (ie 'Chinese martial arts are a classical mess.' He had a grave stone in his dojo to mock traditional martial artists adherence to dogma lol). His shit talking is likely a big reason for the attempted dojo storm.Time of the fight is basically irrelevant. Whether it was 3 minutes or 25 minutes the account by everyone is that it was very sloppy and neither man came off looking great. The ONLY person who claims a different result is WJM and his account is just obviously full of shit (ie my kicks were too dangerous to use, I had other strikes but didn't want to kill him haha)It is definitely NOT on the record that Bolo and Bruce fought and there has never been anyone that has stated it happened.Almost everyone but Lee is still alive from that shoot and the interviews have been extensive.It is true he agreed to fights during breaks with random background extras according to multiple sources and always creamed them. I'm just citing the story I've read many times, obviously I wasn't there so I can't say for sure. &I believe my main point was that Linda's story sounds fishy. &Yup very familiar with him not liking traditional Chinese arts and his exact phrase of &classical mess&. &I'm not surprised, when I took kung fu as a 12 year old I wondered &how the fuck would this actually work in a real fight? this is all choreography& and i was a dumb kid so i can imagine how Bruce felt. &I do remember for a fact Wall saying it was Bolo that fought Lee but again, I wasn't thereNICE! I found the part of the documtary where &the fight& is talked about. &Queued up at the right part. Linda is likely full of crap. &There are many documentaries but this one was pretty credible as it featured interviewees such as Chuck Norris, James Coburn, Bruce's directors/producers/students, Bruce's brother, etc etc & is narrated by George Takai (oh my!)&Apparently they've decided copyright to watch this via youtube doesn't extend to Australia ...lol wtf?I've seen it though ...although with every other doco ever made multiple times :)I'm always suspicious of any of the official docos as there is so much myth making in them when it comes to Lee. Its only really when you see independent interviews that a more rounded picture becomes apparent.Although in recent years Linda Lee seems to be loosening up a bit. The latest one 'I am Bruce Lee' is the first time I've ever seen her say on camera that Bruce did not miraculously fully recover from his bad back injury and he continued to have ongoing back problems that were an issue (something that had been talked about by others but had always been basically refuted by the Lee estate)I hear ya on the myth making caution but it seems Linda is doing that, not this documentary. &Linda says Bruce wiped the floor with the dude. & This doc says Bruce barely won that fight and the experience let him know what holes he had in his game. &If they were nut riding Bruce they'd have given Linda's version. &The documentary which I'm sure you've seen&is called &Curse of the Dragon& made many years ago when Chuck Norris was young, maybe u can search it out to find a viewable copy from there
WidespreadPanic -
LL was NOT in the room. She was made to wait outside. Only Jesse Glover and Ted Wong were in the room.
What gives me some pause, besides the one-sided part was this line:
&Soon, my hands began to swell&.
He wouldn't have been punching long enough to notice this and in a fight people just don't notice that kind of thing. In fact, I'm a very lucid person and I could not remember my fight in HS. All I remember is 'coming to' as to awareness when the guy was standing in a flowerbed up against the back wall of our school in a courtyard behind the band room. There was a tall conical evergreen to my right. The guys said 'ok, stop'.
It wasn't until 5 min later when I was on the way home in the back seat of my girlfriend's mother's dark blue Oldsmobile 88 that I looked down, I was sitting behind the driver, her mother and I saw this fine red mist on the back of my right hand. I looked at my left hand and there was the same fine mist. I had no idea how that came to be there, but there were no marks on my hands.
I blurted out 'there's blood on my hands' and her mother said (eventually) 'had I known you were fighting I'd have left the school parking lot without you'. It's a quote I still remember 50 years later.
Turned out the idiot who challeneged me, a bigger lanky guy named 'Sam' had braces and I had apparently hit him in the mouth with both hands, I think two times each because the spray was so uniform and he had exhaled the blood after the first hit (so maybe three times, two rights and a left).
He couldn't play his trombone for a week due to his mouth being cut up.
So, again, it's odd that BL would have remembered his hands swelling due to adrenaline blocking out his peripheral vision (tunnel vision effect). I do think he did hit him in the back of the head a few times, and it's not clear that the other guy was a complete runner.
But again, Jesse told me that LL was there, but not in the room.I thought it was obvious he was talking about after the fight.Who sees their hands swell during a fight and then starts to have an epiphany about changing their fighting style and then begins to alter it?&
FingerorMoon&-&GuttyProfessor - I met John Saxon years ago and I asked him what kind of badass Bruce Lee was. He said very simply "The biggest tool Bruce had was his speed. He was so fast that we had to slow down footage of his fight scenes to be able to choreograph them properly. He was also wildly athletic. I've never seen an athlete like Bruce in all these years. I saw guys challenge him, but never saw anyone beat him". Saxon was there. Trained with him. Learned from him. Was on set of many of the films. I believe him. Do you mean Bob Wall?John Saxon played Roper in Enter the Dragon. He was an actor, not a martial artist or student of Lee's. And he wasn't in any other Lee movie. John Saxon is a martial artist. Black belt in karate under Nishiyama's JKF.
FingerorMoon&-&GuttyProfessor - I met John Saxon years ago and I asked him what kind of badass Bruce Lee was. He said very simply "The biggest tool Bruce had was his speed. He was so fast that we had to slow down footage of his fight scenes to be able to choreograph them properly. He was also wildly athletic. I've never seen an athlete like Bruce in all these years. I saw guys challenge him, but never saw anyone beat him". Saxon was there. Trained with him. Learned from him. Was on set of many of the films. I believe him. Do you mean Bob Wall?John Saxon played Roper in Enter the Dragon. He was an actor, not a martial artist or student of Lee's. And he wasn't in any other Lee movie.
Couldnt have been Bob Wall, he said that while BL was fast he knew other guys that were faster.
Yes, and John Saxon also took lessons from the Gracies...For how long and to what extent I don't know.
Chitat - FingerorMoon&-&GuttyProfessor - I met John Saxon years ago and I asked him what kind of badass Bruce Lee was. He said very simply "The biggest tool Bruce had was his speed. He was so fast that we had to slow down footage of his fight scenes to be able to choreograph them properly. He was also wildly athletic. I've never seen an athlete like Bruce in all these years. I saw guys challenge him, but never saw anyone beat him". Saxon was there. Trained with him. Learned from him. Was on set of many of the films. I believe him. Do you mean Bob Wall?John Saxon played Roper in Enter the Dragon. He was an actor, not a martial artist or student of Lee's. And he wasn't in any other Lee movie. John Saxon is a martial artist. Black belt in karate under Nishiyama's JKF.I looked it up and you are correct.Apparently he started Judo in the late 50s and karate later and by Enter the Dragon's filming hadn't done martial arts in about 4 years.http://littledragon.builtfree.org/saxon.htmlMy comment was based on reading other interviews with him I've read that he didn't enjoy the physical nature of Enter the Dragons filming. Answer came off as someone that didn't enjoy martial arts.
VegasMMA - My sources say Lo Pan appeared and took Bruce Lee's wife to be his bride. Jack Burton and Egg Shen got involved and taught Bruce Jeet Kune Do. Does she have green eyes?
FingerorMoon&-&Skpotamus&-&Guys, you do know he wrote a series of books right? Not a collection of notes cobbled together and published after he died, but literally hundreds of pictures of him performing techs he taught along with a young Dan Inosanto if I'm not remembering wrong. It was called Bruce Lee's Figthing methods and was originally 4 or 5 books I think. You can buy it now in one volume on amazon. They include such gems as kicking a knife out of someone's hands. Spinning kicks to the head in a street fight. Etc. Stuff that if taught today would get people laughed at. Here's a screenshot of some pages: /bruceleefightingmethodvolume1--phpapp01/95/bruce-lee-fighting-method-volume-1-45-728.jpg?cb=Then there's the videos that was released of him doing bag work. Punching and kicking a heavy bag and a kick shield. He was side kicking a stationary target, a giant kick shield. He missed it once and hit way off to the side a few times. His heavy bag boxing work was him winging punches from his waist into the bag with his head forward and open. Looking really sloppy and untrained tbh. His training philosophy was ahead of it's time. But, he never fought anyone of note. But he died young with a lot of A list hollywood friends, making him legendary. He's kind of like a Rorschach test of martial arts tbh. People see what they want to see.Bruce Lee's Fighting Method was a series of 4 pamphlet sized books he had pics taken for in the mid to late 60s.He chose not to release any of it because his training philosophies changed rapidly during that time.They ended up being released as a cash in, about 5 years after his death. There was a remastering a couple of years ago and combining them all into 1 hardcover.The videos of him punching the bag and kicking pads are him having his wife film in his own backyard as he was learning these things. They were from private practice and experimentation and again, from the mid 60s.They only prove that he was trying to adapt from Wing Chun to more of a boxing and kickboxing approach at that time.We don't have any real footage or idea of what he looked like in heavy sparring by 1972/3. Each pamphlet was over 100 pages long. I think altogether its almost 500 pages. I remember when his wife released those vids. They were supposed to be from his prime, when he was shutting down his school to focus on his films. It was supposed to be him at his best. Regardless, he looked like shit in those vids.
Good lord stop the quotes
People critical of Bruce Lee are looking at him through a 2016 lens, not a 1970's lens. The reality is, back then, Bruce Lee was far beyond his contemporaries in the martial arts world. While generic Kung Fu schools were teaching &preying mantis& and &death touch& Bruce Lee was adopting the principles of boxing. Back when Tae Kwon Do guy were saying they would give an attacker a, &flying sidekick& Bruce Lee was interested in Judo and primitive grappling techniques. While traditional karate was teaching rigid and deep stance, Bruce Lee was studying fencing for its movement and precision.
Although Bruce Lee was not a &fighter& he would have probably beaten up most bullshit dojo owners back then. He was in great shape, understood boxing, had some knowledge of grappling, and, by most accounts, was very powerful and accurate. To many he was an outcast because of his blending of &styles. However, that is exactly what modern day fighters are doing today. Bruce Lee was well ahead of the curve on this and people forget that.
This is what martial artists looked like back when Bruce Lee was boxing, grappling, and weight training. Imagine him fighting these fucking people. On athleticism alone BL kicks most people's ass back then
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