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Do you believe in ghosts?
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I have always been a strong believer that there are no such thing as ghosts but after living in china for a few years i'm starting to wonder. i have seen people become 'possessed' before my eyes and have taught children who see people that are not there amongst other things. i'm still voting 'no' but the subject is really interesting to me. so what do the rest of you believe?
p.s. there was supposed to be a poll attached to this but seems to have got lost somewhere along the way??
Edited by jinmo, 30 January 2010 - 01:55 AM.
什么都略懂一点
生活更多彩一些。
I don't believe a thing about it. I only believe in what I see. Besides, what can a ghost to do to me? Freaking me out? In fact, people who put on ghostly costumes during Halloween did a better job than the &real& ghost, if it really is REAL. I'm with you, jinmo.
I've seen &possessed& people too. I have seen Christians doing ghost exorcism in some documentary films. No comments on that.
My mom told me once that her uncle took her to see a &supernatural& performance. The performance took place in a cleared piece of land in an eerie forest. People gathered around and started buying amulets and enjoy the show. The performers started poking themselves with a bundle of burning incense and they didn't feel any pain. They started to prance around like they were in a trance. All of a sudden, somebody in the crowd yelled &SNAKE! GET OUTTA THERE!!& in Cantonese. Everybody started to bolt out from the forest and... I'll leave the rest for you to figure out.
My parents taught me never to believe such things at a very young age as these will drive you insane and affect your normal life. My parents did a very good job in teaching me not to be afraid of the dark when I was three. To me, watching horror movies are like watching boring CNN business and news programmes.
Why bother going through those troubles believing in things you can't see or harm you? I'm afraid believing such things will harm your mentality even more than what a &real& ghost can do to you. Many people wanted to believe such things. It has something to do with psychology.
Edited by WuXiaHer0, 30 January 2010 - 04:31 AM.
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Personally, I don't believe in ghosts or anything else of that ilk. That people believe they have seen ghosts, I don't doubt, but what they may have perceived and what actually was are not necessarily the same.
WuXiaHer0, your parents taught
you well, and I always give credit to my mother for teaching me to be sceptical from an early age.
My ex-gf once told me she and her family became Christians (Evangelicalism) because her mother was possessed by a &snake-spirit&. They practised an exorcism and that how they end up following the Evangelical Church. A teacher from Taiwan also told me that he joined Yiguan Dao on the same grounds: someone in his family was possessed by a &snake-spirit& and Yiguan Dao monks exorcised him.
假如有个恶魔在某日或某夜闯入你十分孤独的寂寞中，且对你说：&人生便是你目前所过、或往昔所过的生活，将来仍将不断重演，绝无任何新鲜之处。然而，每一样痛苦、欢乐、念头、叹息，以及生活中许多大大小小无法言传的事情皆会再度重现，而所有的结局也都一样??同样的月夜、枯树和蜘蛛，同样的这个时刻以及我。那存在的永恒之沙漏将不断地反复转动，而你在沙漏的眼中只不过是一粒灰尘罢了！& 那个恶魔竟敢如此胡说八道，难道你不咬牙切齿地诅咒他？还是，若在以前的话，你也许会回答他：&你真是一个神，我从未听过如此神圣的道理！& - Nietzsche, &Die fr?hliche Wissenschaft&, § 341
Hi again, Honam. Thanks for answering some of my previous post. I appreciate it.The question is, &did they&?A question has been in my head for a long long time, &If you can see ghosts, why can't I? Are you gifted unlike me? Why would the ghost only let you it and not me? & Many people find it hard to answer my question.People say they believe in ghosts and they are inclined to do it. Compare a a strong believer in ghosts and a skeptical person. The result?The ghost guy will surely be antsy all the time, looking out for &ghost&. Everywhere they go, they're like &Eeek! Don't go there!& , &Do you think this place is safe?& , etc. and they wasted loads of hard earn wages to buy amulets, good luck charm and seeing exorcists. I sure do not want to live like that, fearing for your life 24/7 and wasting your money. I'd rather let the &ghosts& do what they have to. Besides, I didn't commit any sin. Someone told me before that a sinner will be more likely to see ghosts than a good guy because the ghost's trying to scare the daylights out of him just to teach him a lesson.As for the skeptical person, he's the coolest and carefree guy I ever know.
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Have you seen the HK movie ? It?s about a girl who can see ghosts, and his doctor, a psychiatrist, who obviously doesn?t believe in them. At some point the psychiatrist tells her &How many news of people dying because of ghosts have you seen?&. I think it?s a good point. Christians see Marian apparitions, while Indians, seeing the same, see Devas. Others just see UFOs. Different religion followers get stigmata, but of course, they are different if you believe in Jesus or in another stigmatized person. Maybe it is the same for the ghosts, and what they see does actually have already a scientific name?And for the exorcisms, maybe some kind of disorder that can be healed in some way if you believe you are cured? If ghosts do really exist, they should share qualities between countries, but... does the West have hot long-haired Asian ghost-girls?
Don the possesssion in both regions (or in others) work out in the same way? And how about the way souls interact with people? Are Chinese souls different from Western souls?
假如有个恶魔在某日或某夜闯入你十分孤独的寂寞中，且对你说：&人生便是你目前所过、或往昔所过的生活，将来仍将不断重演，绝无任何新鲜之处。然而，每一样痛苦、欢乐、念头、叹息，以及生活中许多大大小小无法言传的事情皆会再度重现，而所有的结局也都一样??同样的月夜、枯树和蜘蛛，同样的这个时刻以及我。那存在的永恒之沙漏将不断地反复转动，而你在沙漏的眼中只不过是一粒灰尘罢了！& 那个恶魔竟敢如此胡说八道，难道你不咬牙切齿地诅咒他？还是，若在以前的话，你也许会回答他：&你真是一个神，我从未听过如此神圣的道理！& - Nietzsche, &Die fr?hliche Wissenschaft&, § 341
Let me think... &Inner Senses&... Hmm, nope, I haven't seen this.
Starred by Leslie Cheung before he committed suicide. Woah, I think the movie really got into him... Don't you think so? Might wanna search for this when I have the time. Thanks for introducing it to me.Like I said previously, watching horror movies make me doze off. (Ever heard a romantic advice of bringing your GF watching horror movies so that she could depend on you for &comfort&? Doesn't work for a guy like me, sleeping in front of a cinema screen with zombie dudes and monsters...) Also, I don't really watch HK movies. Maybe that's the reason my broken Cantonese would make a Cantonese guy laugh his head off, I mentioned it in one of the topics I posted, you know, &The Importance of Speaking and Preserving Chinese Dialects&?Say... I recall watching a documentary film in History Channel or Discovery Channel about the stigmata of Jesus Christ. Have you seen it? I'm fascinated how it got it's place some where on a guy's hand. Some stated that they dreamt of Jesus and when they woke up the next morning, they saw stigmata on their palms each, some even claimed they have it on their soles. I seen them in the documentary film, all bloody and red. A real gore. Here's an interesting one, they didn't feel any pain...Exorcisms. They too had me scratching my head. I seen exorcisms before. Christians, Malay, Chinese and others. All shared the same thing, getting the spirits out of the body and the victims are always screaming and tossing around like a rodeo bull. Exorcists will always be there chanting prayers and so on, same ol' same ol'. So, can you say the ghosts in different countries different? There are so many &supernatural& things which cannot be explained or hard to understand, such as the Bermuda Triangle and UFOs. Another one is the Black Hole. It may not be considered as &supernatural& but it's just like the Bermuda Triangle. People lost in the Bermuda Triangle spot have gone where? Another dimension of the world?How did we know the ghosts are always the &standard& long haired Asian girls? We get the impression that every &ghosts& we see will be long haired Asian girls, thanks to Asian horror movies. Ever seen &The Wig&? It's a Korean horror movie and yes, the director got himself a long haired girl to do the spooky scenes. I didn't watch this so I can't tell how it goes. Similarly, there are many other Asian horror movies with long haired Asian girls as the star of the movie. I've seen some in Thai, Indonesian, Japanese and Chinese horror movies. Perhaps the scariness effect is much more &drastic& as you call it, if they use a long haired girl to do the spooking.As for the West, I'm not sure. Surely, the majority of the Westerners are Christians and their &ghosts& are different, maybe demons, horned devils , vampires, werewolves... I'm not a Christian, so I can't really define how the ghosts looked like according to Westerners.Some people believed that when a person dies, his soul will leave his body. If the guy died a pathetic/painful/innocent death, his disturbed soul will not ascend to heaven and will get stuck in the human realm, wandering at the place where he died and freaking everybody out who stays or wanders near the area by causing accidents or wreak havoc. Surely, different people have different perspective. Strong believer of ghosts would say it's the troubled soul's fault while some might say, &there's gotta be an explanation to this&. The Chinese version of the zombie is called jiang shi 僵尸. One thing that made this zombie different from others is that this zombie hops with arms extended, not walk. In the Chinese Classics 聊斋志异, supernatural beings were depicted as fox spirits and long haired demons. That's all I know. I was brought up by two dictatorial and skeptical parents. I remembered that when I was a kid, I always blamed any &accidents& or &havoc& were caused by supernatural beings. That's when I get a pretty good slap to the face by my mother.
My father even joked, saying that &the ghost is more afraid of you&.
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LOL Long time since I don't go to cinema. All boring Western movies around here. Rumors say next month we can see Chibi 赤壁 in Spain. More rumors say it will be censored a cut version suitable to Western taste.I think from the note Leslie left after suicide, he was more in the line of feeling people around him cannot understand what he wanted. Never felt like in the eyes of others you are supposed to be happy, but you are not because you don?t have what you actually want (which is different from what others think you want)? I got that feeling when I read his note some years ago.Also, I don't really watch HK movies. Maybe that's the reason my broken Cantonese would make a Cantonese guy laugh his head off, I mentioned it in one of the topics I posted, you know, &The Importance of Speaking and Preserving Chinese Dialects&?Well, still good! All I can do in Cantonese is scold people and sing old songs...
Say... I recall watching a documentary film in History Channel or Discovery Channel about the stigmata of Jesus Christ. Have you seen it? I'm fascinated how it got it's place some where on a guy's hand. Some stated that they dreamt of Jesus and when they woke up the next morning, they saw stigmata on their palms each, some even claimed they have it on their soles. I seen them in the documentary film, all bloody and red. A real gore. Here's an interesting one, they didn't feel any pain...I read somewhere that stigmata could happen for physical reasons, related to the power of mind over the body or dissociative disorders. But since stigmata are culturally vinculating and happen in different ways depending on your religious beliefs, they should have an independent explanation.Exorcisms. They too had me scratching my head. I seen exorcisms before. Christians, Malay, Chinese and others. All shared the same thing, getting the spirits out of the body and the victims are always screaming and tossing around like a rodeo bull. Exorcists will always be there chanting prayers and so on, same ol' same ol'. So, can you say the ghosts in different countries different?Well, Christian possessions (at least in the West) are usually related with demons, and for what is supposed to happen they would proof that that particular belief (Christian or any other) is true. I mean, if there is really something possessing you, and it goes out when you read the Bible but not the Coran, the Mahabharata or the DaVinci Code
...but ghosts go out in different ways and for different reasons. Ghost-possession seems to be more &Asian& or at least Chinese. I don?t recall any significant ghost-possession in Western tradition but for late Spiritism. All exorcism I have heard of in China are related to snake-spirits (my ex-gf even sustained that snakes are the only animals that can have children with humans
!!). So again, same signals, culturally vinculating (different culture have different ways of showing and treating the same symptoms) means a common explanation is needed, independent of the cultural-religious vinculating one.There are so many &supernatural& things which cannot be explained or hard to understand, such as the Bermuda Triangle and UFOs. Another one is the Black Hole. It may not be considered as &supernatural& but it's just like the Bermuda Triangle. People lost in the Bermuda Triangle spot have gone where? Another dimension of the world?Black Holes are some kind of mystery 'cos we lack a physical theory which can explain what is going on there. You have a big mass, which has to be explained with conventional physics, all in an infinitesimal space (because of the gravitational force of the former star made it collapse), which can only be explained with quantum physics. Black Holes show that there is still a lot for us to learn, but they are not supernatural in any way
How did we know the ghosts are always the &standard& long haired Asian girls? We get the impression that every &ghosts& we see will be long haired Asian girls, thanks to Asian horror movies. Ever seen &The Wig&? It's a Korean horror movie and yes, the director got himself a long haired girl to do the spooky scenes.Yeah, pretty good movie. I don?t mean all ghosts are hot long haited Asian girls
Japan has a wide ghost/weird creature tradition. My point is that, in the West, we lack such ghosts... why? I don't think they need passport! As for the West, I'm not sure. Surely, the majority of the Westerners are Christians and their &ghosts& are different, maybe demons, horned devils , vampires, werewolves... I'm not a Christian, so I can't really define how the ghosts looked like according to Westerners.But dogs look usually the same eveywhere, rite? 90% of time you can tell &That?s a dog, not a cat&. If ghost did exist, and so vampire, werewolves, demons, ... they should be shared by most cultures AND in very similar ways. That?s my first reason to not believe in them Some people believed that when a person dies, his soul will leave his body. If the guy died a pathetic/painful/innocent death, his disturbed soul will not ascend to heaven and will get stuck in the human realm, wandering at the place where he died and freaking everybody out who stays or wanders near the area by causing accidents or wreak havoc. Surely, different people have different perspective. Strong believer of ghosts would say it's the troubled soul's fault while some might say, &there's gotta be an explanation to this&.Usually modern HK movies (80-90s) featured ghosts of the deceased that will haunt ppl, make them crazy, but they cannot directly interact with the world. I believe this is more a modern convention to relate ghost possession with mental disorders (they would be in fact, according to these movies, ghosts), but it has some ancient root. Only people who had a violent dead could come back as a material ghost, because his two souls did not separate (so they keep a material body, but not a body shape). But if you die with regret, or if you don?t receive proper funeral, one of your souls (I guess the terrestial one) won?t find peace, or won?t find its way to the underworld. Since it is not material, it would only possess or control other bodies/shapes.I was brought up by two dictatorial and skeptical parents. I remembered that when I was a kid, I always blamed any &accidents& or &havoc& were caused by supernatural beings. That's when I get a pretty good slap to the face by my mother.
My father even joked, saying that &the ghost is more afraid of you&.
In my case it was the opposite. They did something bad, and said it was some kind of &goblin& ...once I even recorded them with my webcam, still won?t admit it...!
假如有个恶魔在某日或某夜闯入你十分孤独的寂寞中，且对你说：&人生便是你目前所过、或往昔所过的生活，将来仍将不断重演，绝无任何新鲜之处。然而，每一样痛苦、欢乐、念头、叹息，以及生活中许多大大小小无法言传的事情皆会再度重现，而所有的结局也都一样??同样的月夜、枯树和蜘蛛，同样的这个时刻以及我。那存在的永恒之沙漏将不断地反复转动，而你在沙漏的眼中只不过是一粒灰尘罢了！& 那个恶魔竟敢如此胡说八道，难道你不咬牙切齿地诅咒他？还是，若在以前的话，你也许会回答他：&你真是一个神，我从未听过如此神圣的道理！& - Nietzsche, &Die fr?hliche Wissenschaft&, § 341
WHAT?!! You're going to see 赤壁 NEXT MONTH??????!!!!!!!!! Goodness, 赤壁 came out two years ago in Malaysia! Even 赤壁 2 came out last year in Malaysia! My condolences to you, friend. Say, you're a Chinese living in Spain? Interesting.I'm sure the flight company will go bankrupt...My friends have a collection of DVDs about strange &supernatural& things at work. Most took place in the Chinese community in Malaysia and Singapore while some were from HK.Many ghost stories or horror movies were made up to discourage some people doing things which were considered bad. This is a famous ghost story shared among school students:A group of students were playing with their cellphones while learning at a tuition centre. In the tuition centre, the table was aligned vertically in a narrow room and each side of the table consisted of four students. The student sitting at the far end of the table was trying to take a picture of his friend sitting at the other end of the table. After taking the picture, he opened the image to see a fifth &figure& next to his friend.Another famous one was shared by many people to scare school students from going to secluded karaoke centres:A CCTV was set up at the entrance of a karaoke centre. A group of three school students went into a karaoke centre. Rumour has it that someone inadvertently died in that karaoke centre. After having a &fun& time in that dark place, they came out together. The night watchman monitoring the video saw a fourth &figure& right behind the three students. To me, it could be a glitch in the video tape.There is one way to summon a spirit known in Malaysia and Singapore. It is called &The Spirit of The Coin&. Have you heard of this? Many parents do not want their kids to do these as they believe the spirit they summoned will follow them and cause calamity to befall on their children. I'm not going to say as how you're going to do this. My mom says it's really really bad. When she was toddler, she and her siblings went to see a group of mischievous friends doing this trick. She saw the coin move and she bolted. She also told me something unfortunate happened to the mischievous kids who initiated to do this trick. Still, being as skeptical as she is, she still warn me not to try this. Here's the link to a real story, was it?-I didn't attempt to try this trick but I watched other students at school doing it. However, the plan failed. The teacher came in and saw us. I got scolded but seriously didn't touch it!
I came very close to watching the coin move by itself.
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LOL I downloaded it long time ago. Just now it arrives here. Well, some people usually complain that in China only a few Western movies can be shown, but how many Chinese movies can you watch in Spanish cinemas? And after all, in China you can get an illegal DVD of any Western movie, just right in your front door...And no, I'm not Chinese
but still live in Spain (something I hope changes very soon).Another famous one was shared by many people to scare school students from going to secluded karaoke centres:A CCTV was set up at the entrance of a karaoke centre. A group of three school students went into a karaoke centre. Rumour has it that someone inadvertently died in that karaoke centre. After having a &fun& time in that dark place, they came out together. The night watchman monitoring the video saw a fourth &figure& right behind the three students. There are two HK movie about some karaoke incident (Haunted Karaoke or something like that)... well, dunno if the movie is previous to this hahThere is one way to summon a spirit known in Malaysia and Singapore. It is called &The Spirit of The Coin&. Have you heard of this? I have seen it in movies
Sounds similar to Western Oui-Ja. Reading your link I would point some differences:- The lizard sound... snakes ad the like again
I never heard such a story about Western Oui-Ja. Most of time you &get& the spirit of a deceased or and evil spirit. Rarely a &true demon&.- The spirit seems to have no domain over material world. Since she is a spirit that had no violent death, it makes sense. In Oui-Ja spirits usually work like that, they can make you do stupid things if you listen to them. Rarely the glass (instead of a coin) do fly against a wall (but no one dies 'cos of that). Some years ago, in Spain, two? guys contacted with some so-called aliens using Oui-Ja. They were told to kill themselves to be rescued in a space ship in its way to Jupiter. And so they did. The diference here is that you can get possessed or, more acurately, haunted, after playing with the coin, but with Oui-Ja only two things may happen: you do something evil because of following the spirit instructions, or you open some Hell Gate and made them have material appearance (well, that's for movies, of course!)- How do you ask questions to the Coin Spirit? Do you have a table with letters so the coin moves and points to them? Or you ask YES/NO questions to be answered by light blinks or knocks?I think what happens here is too much suggestion. Mind can really play bad tricks on you
假如有个恶魔在某日或某夜闯入你十分孤独的寂寞中，且对你说：&人生便是你目前所过、或往昔所过的生活，将来仍将不断重演，绝无任何新鲜之处。然而，每一样痛苦、欢乐、念头、叹息，以及生活中许多大大小小无法言传的事情皆会再度重现，而所有的结局也都一样??同样的月夜、枯树和蜘蛛，同样的这个时刻以及我。那存在的永恒之沙漏将不断地反复转动，而你在沙漏的眼中只不过是一粒灰尘罢了！& 那个恶魔竟敢如此胡说八道，难道你不咬牙切齿地诅咒他？还是，若在以前的话，你也许会回答他：&你真是一个神，我从未听过如此神圣的道理！& - Nietzsche, &Die fr?hliche Wissenschaft&, § 341
General_Zhaoyun
Actually, in China, due to its official atheist stance, &ghost& has always been associated with superstition. However, over the past few years, due to the re-emergence of divination/religious practice in China, some people began to believe in ghost. It's also propagated by ghost movies from Hong Kong.Over in Taiwan, due to its spiritually-rich (religious) environment, you will often hear stories of ghost in Taiwan. You will even see drama about ghost in Taiwan TV. In fact, most Taiwanese do believe to a certain degree about ghost.Some of my Taiwanese relatives often told me about ghost stories..to the point that she says she has encountered ghost before. According to Chinese Fengshui/Divination method such as Yuan Tian Gang Divination technique 袁天罡称骨算法, if your Bazi 八字 (8 characters referring to your birth date) is very light （八字輕）, it would be easier for you to see a ghost. The divination tends to measure the 'weight' of your 8 characters. If the weight of your 8 characters is heavy, it is able to stop spirits from tangling with you and you are not likely to see a ghost. However, if your 8 characters is very light, there is a tendency that the spirits will near you and you're more likely to see a ghost.In Chinese religion, it was also reported that many priests or some spiritual people are blessed with a special pair of eyes known as Yin-yang eyes (陰陽眼）. With the yin-yang eyes, they are able to see the spiritual world (realms of the ghosts), which are often invisible from the human eyes.
"夫君子之行：靜以修身，儉以養德；非淡泊無以明志，非寧靜無以致遠。" - 諸葛亮
One should seek serenity to cultivate the body, thriftiness to cultivate the morals. If you are not simple and frugal, your ambition will not sparkle. If you are not calm and cool, you will not reach far. - Zhugeliang
I have already stated that I wouldn't say a word on how to do this trick. I'm afraid people might do something really stupid but, oh well, if you insist... Again, don't let curiosity get the better of you, Honam. Don't say I didn't warn you...Numbers and the words &yes& and &no& are written on a surface. Then, people who want the spirit to answer their questions would place their index finger on the coin. Then, you start summoning by chanting a few sentences. Ask your questions, any one will do and see the coin move. If the spirit wanted to say &yes& or &no& or any answer involving numbers (e.g. if you're asking for lottery numbers), the coin will move to the place written &yes& or &no& or the numbers. Unfortunately, there's a price to pay after getting a fortune telling session from a spirit. It might want something you couldn't give. Or worse, you can get possessed, like the link I posted.
Edited by WuXiaHer0, 31 January 2010 - 11:23 AM.
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Thx for the info, both you and General_Zhaoyun! I was just curious about how it worked, I?m not into summoning spirits... well, mb when I?m in China if it's a pretty spirit I may try
假如有个恶魔在某日或某夜闯入你十分孤独的寂寞中，且对你说：&人生便是你目前所过、或往昔所过的生活，将来仍将不断重演，绝无任何新鲜之处。然而，每一样痛苦、欢乐、念头、叹息，以及生活中许多大大小小无法言传的事情皆会再度重现，而所有的结局也都一样??同样的月夜、枯树和蜘蛛，同样的这个时刻以及我。那存在的永恒之沙漏将不断地反复转动，而你在沙漏的眼中只不过是一粒灰尘罢了！& 那个恶魔竟敢如此胡说八道，难道你不咬牙切齿地诅咒他？还是，若在以前的话，你也许会回答他：&你真是一个神，我从未听过如此神圣的道理！& - Nietzsche, &Die fr?hliche Wissenschaft&, § 341
LOL!! Fox spirits were known to lure men and sap their human essence if they get real close enough. I'd stick to pretty HUMAN girls.
Edited by WuXiaHer0, 31 January 2010 - 11:44 AM.
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It?s hard to see any HUMAN girl here
they are all 鬼妹 feeding on (hu)man money.
假如有个恶魔在某日或某夜闯入你十分孤独的寂寞中，且对你说：&人生便是你目前所过、或往昔所过的生活，将来仍将不断重演，绝无任何新鲜之处。然而，每一样痛苦、欢乐、念头、叹息，以及生活中许多大大小小无法言传的事情皆会再度重现，而所有的结局也都一样??同样的月夜、枯树和蜘蛛，同样的这个时刻以及我。那存在的永恒之沙漏将不断地反复转动，而你在沙漏的眼中只不过是一粒灰尘罢了！& 那个恶魔竟敢如此胡说八道，难道你不咬牙切齿地诅咒他？还是，若在以前的话，你也许会回答他：&你真是一个神，我从未听过如此神圣的道理！& - Nietzsche, &Die fr?hliche Wissenschaft&, § 341
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